A Seat At The Table

Image taken from Google Image search

Image taken from Google Image search

In the disclaimer I offered back on May 25th of this year (which can be read here), I mentioned that there are many kinds of Hindus, and thus many expressions of Hinduism. The kind of Hindu I want to write about is the carnivorous kind. I hope you brought your big mind to class today. I also hope you have your reading glasses and ample time to not only read what is likely to become a rather lengthy post, but ample time to mentally masticate the suchery about to be included. Aum Ganesha!

Before I dive deeply into what I’m planning here, please allow me to be clear: I’m not condoning carnivorous practices among humans. It’s my opinion that our current methodology for farming meat products is not only wasteful and inefficient, but also immensely cruel. I also believe there’s more than enough scientific evidence to support the theory that humans are anatomically and physiologically designed to consume primarily plant material for our nutrition needs. Lastly, I do think, for various reasons which I may end up not going into very much, that humans – as spiritual and intellectual organisms – function optimally when abstaining from eating meat. Beyond that, I’m not mad at folks who chomp beasts.

From where I’m sitting, this topic is a source of contention and too many misguided, skewed intentions. In the middle ages, Christians hunted other groups of people who they perceived to be a threat of some sort. Mind you, those Christians didn’t simply decided against a group and then plot its extermination. There was something about one group or another that was perceived to be a detractor to the process of “saving” the world, or was seen as a roadblock of sorts for those attempting to gain entrance into eternal heavenly paradise. Everyone wants paradise and some people want it for others, too. This was the goal of Christians then, but what ended up happening instead were things like the Crusades where folks were literally hunted and killed for not being Christian. Interestingly, during these times even Christian priests were tested – by vegetarianism. If they refused to eat meat, they were accused of having been influenced by the religion of Manacheanism and would be killed. Some could read this as indicative of the violence inherent in Christian doctrine. I’ll let you take those thoughts where you will.

I find that something along these lines, although not to the same extreme degree, happens in Hindu/Buddhist circles. There are many many scriptural texts in the Hindu religion. Many of those texts strongly advise that eating sentient beings isn’t too far removed from eating another human and at times those same texts precisely detail the karmic and spiritual repercussions – sometimes with an amount of detail that causes me to question the validity of that kind of precision. What’s often overlooked, though, are the parts of the Hindu family that either say nothing about abstaining from meat, encourage killing in some contexts (perhaps for sacrifice or beacuse of so-called duty), or advise that being too against meat eating is no different from actually consuming flesh yourself.

That last bit is important. I personally know a numerous number of vegetarians and vegans who believe that abstaining from fleshy chews will save their souls all the while completely ignoring the inner landscape they’ve cultivated around the subject and all the resultant karma they’re incurring because of it. All of our external actions have seeds which are subtle, many being as subtle as our own thoughts and emotions.

Please understand that aversion is ultimately, qualitatively, no different than desire – both are dangerous traps! This is affirmed/confirmed in the Gita by Shri Krishna, himself. Ultimately, perception of “goodness” is meant to be avoided as much as perception of “evil.” The only possible benefit of cultivating an abundance of “good” is pleasantry of experience. Be sure – the two are essentially the same. Hating or despising the consumption of meat will put you in the same samsaric/karmic boat as those who actually eat meat. Karma is karma, after all, and even the smallest amount of the most subtle karmic expression is still enough to imprison one on the wheel of death and rebirth – preventing moksha from being yours.

I want to show that, while there may be plenty of Hindu Scriptures or accepted concepts that strongly encourage a meat-free life, there are also scriptures that proclaim the more ultimate benefit of transcending such preferences. I’ll write more about that later. One should also note that there’s a key difference between encouraging someone in a behavior and simply not condemning them for it.

I also want to briefly visit what is probably the most common reason for abstaining from meat: Ahimsa. Most understand the term to simply and broadly mean nonviolence. This is true, but at best this definition only half covers abstention from meat. That’s because, at best, “nonviolence” only half defines ahimsa. Taking the definition of a word like ahimsa to be fully encompassed by something like “nonviolence” is like saying Brahman is as simple as “God.” It’s simply not (completely) true. This form of simplicity is at work in other forms of fundamentalism where something important is whittled down to chewable bites, and then those bits are said to contain every flavor of the original. As with any other Sanskrit word, there are numerous layers of meaning, and saying ahimsa means nonviolence is like saying you are your skin. It should also be pointed out that true nonviolence is not possible in ANY life. This is something else that is key to remember and is a prime example of how fundamentalism works, even within Hinduism. You end up throwing out practicality and reason. Other layers of ahimsa are possible in life, with effort, and when ahimsa is applied to a spiritual context those deeper layers are what’s being pointed to, not simply nonviolence. With that said, ahimsa alone makes a great case for better living, but not specifically a vegetarian diet.

Karma is another word that’s quite often tossed around when arguing whether meat eating is massively detrimental within the perennial context. Everyone seems to be under the assumption that all killing is “bad” and that all “bad” actions create undesirable results. If this were really the case, the warrior caste would be lower than the Shudras and would certainly be doomed to hellish places lifetime after lifetime, and Krishna wouldn’t have advised Arjuna that to kill humans (humans he loved!) is the dharmic thing to do. This is further support that the concept of non-violence isn’t meant to be so encompassing. Surely, with God represented equally in all sentient beings, if there are times when it’s literally righteous to kill other humans, there must also be times when it’s okay to kill “lesser” beings – although not necessarily for food. Still, I have a hard time believing that someone who enjoys a hamburger is automatically somehow karmically worse off than a soldier… at least here in the Kali Yuga.

Three Hindu scriptures do sufficiently well at illustrating all of this – not that consuming flesh is ok, but that it’s worse (or just as bad) to have an aversion to it. Due to the current length of this post, I’ll save the actual meat of what I’m getting at for another post, which is just as likely to be as broad as it is long. Stay tuned if you care.

Jai Shri Ganesha!

Aum Mahaganeshaya Namaha
Aum Shanti


10 responses to “A Seat At The Table

  1. That is one of the things that bothered me about the teachings of Bhaktivedanta-ji, for example. That not condemning is the same thing as encouraging meat eating. I encourage my wife to go get some chicken all the time if I feel thats what she wants. I’ll help her prep the ingredients for a non-veg meal. I won’t eat it, but that’s my business, right? Great post, Vinay.


  2. Makes me think about a lot of things though. I mean I had an epiphany a while ago as you know, based on a talk by Vivekananda after which I came up with a list of 5 new goals and one was to avoid “adharma” when possible. I don’t necessarily think eating meat is adharma either, but I know it is not for me. But I am still supporting financially MANY establishments who do serve it. Its a tough one, but I know I cannot take responsibility for what they do with my “financial support.”


    • I know the feeling. I think it’s a very personal/individual choice.

      For me, I don’t pay as much attention to the “negative” they might do with the dollars I give, after all that would seem to be more on them, so much as the “good” they might also being doing. Yes, perhaps there’s meat on the menu, but if the menu also clearly includes more than one or two legit choices for herbivores, I’ll reward them.

      It’s taken my beloved a minute to grasp the new rule, but when we eat out we no longer go places where I “can’t” eat well. Grilled cheese can only get a guy so far! The adjustment at home took less time, but was a bit more intense.


  3. this is a myth circulating especially in western hindu forums about vegetarianism as the preferred diet of all hindus. Contraraly, a vast Majority of hindus living in Nepal and India are meat eaters !! Only a handful of hindu communities are vegetarians and most communities are meat eaters. But hindus as a rule keep away from beef. They dont kill monkeys either.


    • Surya,

      Thank you for the feedback… and I agree. A number of resources/studies indicate that only around 20% of all Indian Hindus are vegetarian – and I think that is an “at best” estimate. I say that because in many surveys that ask questions along those line, people are often dishonest in their answers because of stigma they perceive to be associated with the truth. That means that not only “at best” 20% of Indian Hindus are vegetarians, but also that it’s more likely and even smaller percentage in actuality.

      I can also say, speaking only from my personal experience, that the vast majority of all Indians I have befriended or encountered here in the West are NOT vegetarians. This has been true regardless of whether they’re first generation, second, or whatever and also have been most prevalent among the Vaishnavs & Smartas I’ve known.

      Thank you for adding to this discussion.


  4. forgot to add- all hindu kings from time immemorial have been meat eaters all along, and their offspring , our contemporary kshatriyas are similarly NOT vegetarians.


  5. Thanks for this post! As someone trying to be a Hindu myself, the topic of vegetarianism has always been a difficult one for me, primarily because of my Type II Diabetes; sadly, for me, meat is one of the few foods that won’t send my blood sugar levels into low orbit. So it’s especially difficult for me to become vegetarian. If vegetarianism is required for being a proper Hindu, then where would that leave me? Surely God wouldn’t allow diabetes to exist in humans if it made said humans irredeemable…I don’t know. Maybe you’ll cover this in another post. 🙂


    • Phillip,

      Thank you for the feedback!

      Vegetarianism is certainly not “required” for being a so-called proper Hindu. You can be sure of that precisely because of our religion’s all-encompassing diversity and supreme capability to accommodate every single soul as it travels its own path. This feature of Hinduism is, by itself, a saving grace.

      I don’t think God allows diabetes any more than God allows uncompromised health. If you associate God too often or too closely with the minutia of human existence, you end up with the Abrahamic religions, and/or the dharmic sects that parallel them. For me, personally, this has rarely been a good thing.

      I am, actually, because of your request and one that came before it, planning additional posts regarding this topic and some of the other side paths connecting Hinduism and vegetarianism.

      Thank you, again!


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